Prime Time Replay:
Kirsten Bakis
on Lives of the Monster Dogs
MsgId: *omni_visions(1)
Date: Thu Jul 10 21:38:16 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Welcome to OmniVisions. Tonight at 10:00 PM EDT, our guest will be firsttime novelist Kirsten Bakis, author of "Lives of the Monster Dogs". As usual, the show will take the form of an interview for about the first hour, and we'll open up to audience participation about 11:00 EDT. Join us!This is where I'd usually post a bio of tonight's guest, but seeing as how Kirsten Bakis is a first-time novelist, there isn't a lot to go on. But judging from reading "Lives of the Monster Dogs", there will be. The novel has been released by Farrar, Strauss and Giroux without a specification of genre, and that's perfectly all right. The book certainly transcends whatever pigeonhole anyone is likely to try to put it in. We'll (or I'll) ask Kirsten for a precis of the book, but suffice it to say that it concerns a New York woman who is hired to chronicle the goings-on of NYC's latest phenomenal inhabitants--a group of sentient, sophisticated dogs with opposable thumbs. The book has elements of comedy, horror, satire, and is altogether poignant. Highly recommended, IMHO. Join us in about 15 minutes.
MsgId: *omni_visions(7)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:00:24 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
And it's 10:00 PM EDT. You still there Kirsten?
MsgId: *omni_visions(8)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:00:56 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Yes, I'm still here.
MsgId: *omni_visions(9)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:01:40 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Great! To begin with, could you give us a brief synopsis/precis of "Lives of the Monster Dogs"?
MsgId: *omni_visions(10)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:04:17 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Actually, no. But maybe I can give you a short-ISH synopsis. I'll do my best....It's about monster dogs... they were created by a mad scientist in the late 19th century...or rather, by the descendents of the followers of said mad scientists. In the early 21st century the dogs move to New York City.
MsgId: *omni_visions(12)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:08:17 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
How would you (or would you) classify the book? Do you consider it satirical? I should point out (and I trust you'll correct me if I err) that the term is used in its literal sense--these are not evil creatures.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(16)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:11:40 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
It's hard to classify. I don't consider it satirical, really. It seems to me that in satire, the main idea is to comment (using fictional characters) on real-life situations. But my goal was more just to tell a story.Yes, you're right, they're not evil. At least no more or less than human beings, I feel--perhaps just slightly less.
MsgId: *omni_visions(17)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:14:58 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
I have to admit I didn't find an overall satirical tone, but what prompted the question was a sense of irony I got when Rank (the mad scientist) commits some unspeakable acts (which you spoke) and seems to get rewarded for them. Was this simply an acknowlegment of the way of the world (to paraphrase the Grimms)?
MsgId: *omni_visions(19)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:19:46 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Yes, I'd agree that's "the way of the world." There is something funny (to me, anyway) about a lot of the things that happen in the book--even some of the more awful things, like when Rank murders his brother. I suppose that humor makes it satirical, in a way.
MsgId: *omni_visions(20)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:21:46 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Yes, that is where I found myself raising an eyebrow in humour. (Somehow the British spelling seemed appropriate here.) Overall, I found a lot of sub-text within the book. Is this intentional, or just perhaps the result of the evocative nature of the novel?
MsgId: *omni_visions(22)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:25:00 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Of course there is subtext... perhaps I should ask what subtext/s struck you particularly.
MsgId: *omni_visions(24)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:28:05 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Well, you already alluded to part of it: the fact that the dogs are more humane than the humans. Also, the overall Goethe/German opera-feel to the book. (I can't quite pinpoint an answer eloquently right now, but suffice it to say I haven't stopped playing with thoughts of incidents and themes in my head since I finished it three weeks ago.Afterthought: Also, a general sense of a lack of justice to the universe, considering how Fate doles out it rewards (or lack thereof).
MsgId: *omni_visions(26)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:30:36 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
It's great to hear that it's inspired thoughts. I don't mean to be cryptic at all, but I honestly wasn't trying to encode any specific messages. I'm happy to think that the book opens up questions in readers' minds, without answering them, or making a particular statement.Oh yes, I agree that the universe is not just... not in a way that humans can understand, anyway, if it is just at all. (Not in a way that dogs can understand, either.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(28)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:32:23 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Well, the best books do that, eh? :-) How did this book come about? Was this a premise you've thought of for a long time, or did it just evolve within the writing of the novel?
MsgId: *omni_visions(30)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:36:25 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
A lot of it evolved while I was writing it, although I did have a basic outline laid out when I started... and I'm not sure where that came from. It was a long time ago... it took me about seven years to write the whole book, so it's hard to remember exactly what I was thinking when I began it.
MsgId: *omni_visions(31)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:38:38 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Seven years! Well, they paid off. Why dogs? Is it due to their being "man's best friend"? What's your relationship to them?
MsgId: *omni_visions(32)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:40:06 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Yes, I think that is why I chose dogs. I find it fascinating how they basically have to participate in human culture--I mean they're not wild animals; it's not as if you could turn them loose and they'd be happy....instead, they have to share our world, the human world, and yet they can never be full citizens in it, so to speak. They can't drive or read or open their own dog food cans.Oh, and my relationship to dogs--well, I am sort of a dog person. I mean I like them. I feel sympathy for them, bravely going about the business of being dogs... they often seem so happy, but I think, I mean, it would be really hard to actually be a dog. So I admire them.
MsgId: *omni_visions(35)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:44:18 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
And yet the monster dogs do not seem to revere or deify humans--excepting a couple of disturbed creatures with their relation to Rank. In fact, many seemed to be loners. Is that due to their awareness of their own monsterhood?(To copntradict myself, Ludwig, the historian dog, does revere Rank's mother in a very Doggy way.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(37)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:47:23 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Well, the thing about the monster dogs is that they're dogs who understand what it means to be dogs, and that's a fundamental difference. Once they realize it, they lose the happy ignorance that regular dogs have....And yes, Ludwig does revere Rank's mother, and Cleo, too, I think. In their hearts I think the dogs want, at least partly want rather desperately to be human, and so in that sense they do admire humans.Perhaps I should add, to avoid being "speciesist," that I think regular dogs do "understand" what it means to be dogs, but the difference with the monsters is that, being more like humans, they really understand what dogs look like to humans--that is, how looked down-upon they are.
MsgId: *omni_visions(39)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:50:44 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
You showed great restraint in the prose. Most writers would have made use at least of some canine puns. (The dogs wear tuxes with tails, but no one remarks on that.) Did you avoid these intentionally to maintain a tone for the book? (Don't forget to click on Paws While Typing) (sorry)
MsgId: *omni_visions(42)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:55:31 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Oh, yes, the dog puns!!! "Paws while typing" is about the only one I haven't heard yet. I did put a couple in the book--that Vanity Fair article written by Cleo is called "Doggy Style." The reviews have been all chock full of dog puns. I don't know why I didn't use more of them in the book.
MsgId: *omni_visions(41)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:55:06 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Ah yes. I see that in where Cleo (our protagonist) keeps a dog at home, but works with the monster dogs. The dichotomy is fascinating. To change tack a bit, it's obvious that you're well-read. Have you read much (or any) science fiction? I certainly thought of Mary Shelley a lot when reading your book.
MsgId: *omni_visions(43)
Date: Thu Jul 10 22:58:41 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Yes, there are many things I love about Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein." One thing I love is that she wrote it--am I right about this?--when she was 19. What guts! To be a teenager and think you 're capable of writing something that great--I mean she'd have to have believed in herself a lot to sit down and write it....I also love the way she was able to hit on a central idea so powerful that it's like a myth--it has survived in our culture as a kind of myth, I think. I mean for instance that most people know the story, even if they have not read the book or even seen a movie about it.
MsgId: *omni_visions(44)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:00:00 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Well, how old were you when you started writing "LotMD?"
MsgId: *omni_visions(47)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:04:21 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Well, I was about 21, but the thing about Mary Shelley is that she FINISHED the book when she was 19! I think I spent so long writing mine partly because I knew I was not old enough to finish it at 22 or 23.
MsgId: *omni_visions(48)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:04:40 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Well, I think that's part of the Campbellian power of sf--that it's a form of modern mythology. (And no mistake that Shelley subtitled her book The Modern Prometheus)Have you read any other sf?
(Message to all: We have now opened up the forum for audience participation. If you would like to add your comments or chat with with Kirsten Bakis, exit the forum and re-enter so you'll have a dialog box which lets you post questions. Please don't forget to sign your messages so we know who you are.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(50)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:08:59 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Ah yes, I forgot about that subtitle. I must admit I don't read very much sf these days, though I did when I was younger. The last sf I read was something ancient by William Gibson. But I read odd things; I don't really keep on top of any current literature. Right now I'm reading , and loving, Robert Louis Stevenson's "Treasure Island."
MsgId: *omni_visions(51)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:11:43 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
What is your educational background? Is it at all literary or musical? There's a great deal of love for opera (which I share--particularly Wagner) evident in the book.Whoops--follow-up question to your previous answer: What sf has stayed with you, if any? Are there any sf antecedants in your writing?
MsgId: *omni_visions(53)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:15:43 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
I did take one opera class as an undergraduate (studying, not singing) which I enjoyed very much. I wrote the first pieces of the libretto when I was in that class, as a term paper--they gave us that option. I don't think my prof. really knew what to make of Mops Hacker--think he only gave me a B+. And I read piles of librettos while I was writing the rest of mine, a couple of years ago. What I mostly studied in college, though, was history, and I was particularly interested in religious history. I think I would have gone on to study it in grad school, only I got into the Iowa Writers' Workshop instead.Well, I always thought it would be fun to be a science fiction writer because you just have so much more to play with--you can just, basically, make up any possible or impossible world or characters you want. I think that's fun for writers and readers both. I have tried to write sort of straight sf before, at least when I was a tennager, but my writing was always a little too wacky--it never fit exactly in the genre.
MsgId: *omni_visions(55)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:18:46 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Was the Mops Hacker opera (an integral part of the novel) something that occurred to you before taking the opera class?
> MsgId: *omni_visions(57)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:23:21 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
I think the Mops Hacker opera actually came to me while I was in the opera class. I had already begun the book, and it was on my mind, so when we were offered the libretto-writing option that's what I wrote about.
MsgId: *omni_visions(58)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:24:33 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
I think some of the best sf writers don't quite fit into the genre; like R.A. Lafferty, early Philip K. Dick, some of LeGuin. Did you set out to write an sf novel specifically? Do you think that you will in the future? Also, have you read any Jonathan Lethem? (He also ties in to my previous assertion)
MsgId: *omni_visions(60)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:28:32 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
I haven't read any Jonathan Letham. I haven't even read any Le Guin, even though I know I ought to! I'm not sure what I will write in the future. Although I do think "Monster Dogs" is sort of science fiction, it hasn't, for some reason, been sold much to that audience--as far as I know. I'm sort of without a genre now, and I think I enjoy that. But who knows? Maybe I will try to write sf in the future.
MsgId: *omni_visions(61)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:28:57 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Also, you may want to take a look at Century Magazine, which publishes what the editor (who happens to be a part of the Omni family) Rob Kilheffer calls Stealth SF. I think it shows that some of the best sf works around it, rather than dwelling within the genre. And the field is certainly opening up to the Weird more and more.
MsgId: *omni_visions(62)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:30:59 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
That's interesting. Do you think sf is changing these days, opening up more as a genre, or do you think it has always been the case that the best of it has been a little outside the borders?
MsgId: *omni_visions(63)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:31:46 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.17.170
Interestingly, after hearing and reading about "LOMD" for a couple of months, I received a mailing from Farrar, Straus pushing it as something of interest to sf readers--a good thing, I think. I think the publisher realised that they were missing out on a broader (and possibly more avid)audience for you.
MsgId: *omni_visions(64)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:32:32 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Well, as a reader (and self-appointed pundit,) I certainly consider "LotMD" to be excellent sf, even if it isn't being marketed that way. But that's a reader's point of view, and from what you're saying, your view that you're not setting out that way is possibly all to the good.Answer to #62: I think that some of the best sf has always been outside of the borders, and that as the literature continues to mature, that form of writing is embraced that much more--both by writers and editors, and by readers whose taste is becoming more sophisticated. Still, some of that has always been present. It's just becoming more predominant nowadays.
MsgId: *omni_visions(66)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:35:35 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Hi Ellen-- I'm glad to know that--I didn't realize it. I think that's a good thing. What do you think is happening to sf these days? Is it changing?
MsgId: *omni_visions(67)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:37:36 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.17.170
That's what prompted me to ask you for an interview. I'm usually a bit leery about approaching "mainsream" publishers about interview of their authors for OMNI because there _can_ be a heavy-duty snobbishness about _not_ pushing a book or author as part of the sf/fantasy field....But the pitch letter from your publicist encouraged me. Personally, I'm all for blurring the lines--you see it happening more in horror fiction right now because "horror" has become a dirty word to publishers (for now). A lot of horror is being published as mainstream....
MsgId: *omni_visions(69)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:40:59 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Yes, that snobbishness... It's sort of interesting. I think literary fiction is a genre, too, but I think many people believe that it isn't, that it is just somehow above genres.
MsgId: *omni_visions(70)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:41:33 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.17.170
And fiction that I would consider "fantasy" and/or sf (like yours) is and always has been pubished as just "fiction." Occasionally, you see a writer who has generally written mainstream all along try to write one sf novel and it's often an utter failure because she/he does not know that the idea has been done to death....eg. PD James's CHILDREN OF GOD (or something like that), Hortense Calisher did an sf novel, Paul Theroux--I admit I didn't read them but I heard that they were terrible.
MsgId: *omni_visions(71)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:42:30 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
As Ellen says, I think blurring the lines is a Good Thing. It allows the field to embrace the literary writers like Pynchon and Borges, while permitting writers like Lethem to attain recognition that their sf transcends the genre.Case in point to Ellen: Paul Theroux's sf books. (I think he wrote two.) Hah! Great minds thinking alike. :-)
MsgId: *omni_visions(75)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:44:53 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.17.170
O-Zone and ???
MsgId: *omni_visions(77)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:45:55 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
I don't remember the other--those books are boxed, but I do seem to recall another about population control...? (Or is that 0-Zone?)Kirsten: Have you written any short fiction?
MsgId: *omni_visions(78)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:45:55 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Sorry if my answers have been slowing down a little--I'm just starting to crash after doing my first live reading ever this evening, right before this interview... You know, I'm not surprised that "real" writers would fail at sf--there's a sort of attitude like, well, this stuff is easy. But it's not. It's as hard as "literary" writing.I've tried to write short fiction. I have not yet succeeded. Short stories are hard--everything has to be laid out so tightly.
MsgId: *omni_visions(79)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:47:31 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
In fact, it can be harder than "literary" writing, since the interior logtic has to be rigid to be credible. For mainstream, the universe has already been created, and we know most of the rules.(We'll let you go soon-- I hadn't realized that tonight was your *first* reading.
Are you working on anything right now, or do you have something in mind to begin?
MsgId: *omni_visions(84)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:49:46 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Yes, the rules! I really don't understand that--how some people can value self-absorbed thinly-veiled autobiographical writing consistently so much more than, for instance, sf. I mean some realism is great, of course, but in some ways it is far easier and more forgiving to the writer.No, I'm not working on my next project yet. Just life... I'm enjoying taking a vacation from writing. I'm getting married in November, so that's occupying lots of my attention now. Lots of planning!
MsgId: *omni_visions(86)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:54:23 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Oh yes, it does. Congratulations! Do you have any last thoughts to share with us as we all wind down together?
MsgId: *omni_visions(87)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:56:25 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Last thoughts.... well, thanks for this interview and for telling me some new things about science fiction. I hope to be back here again... maybe in seven years? Wonder what your website will look like then?
MsgId: *omni_visions(88)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:58:25 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
I think we're planning on 3-D holograms, by then. I must say it was both a pleasur to read "Lives of the Monster Dogs" (on better bookshelves everywhere) and to have you here!
MsgId: *omni_visions(89)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:59:31 EDT 1997
From: EllenDatlow At: 38.26.17.170
Hope your reading went well. Thanks for coming online.
MsgId: *omni_visions(90)
Date: Thu Jul 10 23:59:42 EDT 1997
From: kirstenbakis At: 204.249.80.73
Thank you!! Goodnight all. Woof woof! (That's goodnight to any dogs who may be watching.)
MsgId: *omni_visions(91)
Date: Fri Jul 11 00:01:07 EDT 1997
From: Jim_Freund At: 207.38.234.221
Arf, and thanks again! And to all audience and archive readers, thanks for coming by. Don't forget that next Thursday, July 17, OmniVisions will feature Ed Bryant interviewing Suzy McKee Charnas on her new book, "Ruby Tear" (under the name Rebecca Brand). Two weeks hence, July 24, I'll be back with Jack Dann discussing his new novel, "The Memory Cathedral". Good night.
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